Swimming the Tiber Show Notes

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Etherdust 24


Albert Mohler interviews Rev. Canon George Conger

He is an Episcopalian Priest with the Diocese of Central Florida. Says that the Anglican Communion is collapsing. Dr. Mohler is president of Southern Baptist Seminary, and while I don’t always agree with him, when he speaks, many people listen.

Albert Mohler

The Best is yet to come!

Not everything is doom and gloom. There are still some of us who think everything is going to be alright. In their weekly blogspot, Christ Church of Hamilton, an orthodox Episcopal church, located in Mass, has an encouraging article about how the breakup of the Anglican communion is actually the best thing that could happen, given the current theological situation. Don’t just go and read the article, go to the church web site. Father Jurgen Liias is a brilliant preacher.

Christ Church, Hamilton, Ma

China Missionary spot

Have you been watching the Olympics?…. I have, and have been amazed at not only the athletic competition, but the mystery and beauty of the Chinese culture. In that vein, I want to bring to your attention the story of an Anglican English woman who despite incredible odds went to China to be a missionary during World War 2. Great stuff off of the Phipps family blog. Rachelle Philips blogs out of Priest River, Idaho. Her husband is in the army, and she is a stay at home mom.

Amazing men and women.

Dioceses of Ft. Worth thinking of going to Rome?

Now here is a story that unfortunately is going to start playing itself out in many churches in the Anglican Church. I seems that 4 priests from Bishop Jack Iker’s Ft. Worth diocese, (which is one of the few remaining conservative dioceses in the American Episcopal Church), went to see Catholic bishop Kevin Vann, inquiring how the Diocese of Ft. Worth could come into full communion with Rome. I’m going to discuss this in full later in the show, but this story has been burning up the blogs all over the internet; it’s a must read. Kudos to Katie Sherrod and her desert child blogsite for a complete backstory to this breaking news event.

Going to Rome?

Remembering Johnathan Daniels

Wayward episcopalian

This is for those of you that celebrate feast days. Thursday, August 15, 2008 celebrates the martyrdom of Johnathan Daniels who was killed during the Civil Rights protests of the 1960s. The Wayward Episcopalian does a great job summing up his life. Here is an excerpt from this article:

Jonathan Daniels, a native of Keene, New Hampshire, began studying at the Episcopal Theological School in Massachusetts in 1963. In 1965, he heard the call of God and Martin Luther King to come to Selma, Alabama to join in a Civil Rights march. While he had only planned to spend the weekend in Alabama, he was so moved by the experience that he decided to commit himself fully to the Civil Rights Movement. Daniels returned to school proposing to stay in Selma for the remainder of the semester and promising to learn the course material on his own and come back for exams. Back in Selma, Daniels worked to integrate the Episcopal church, taking young African-Americans with him to the all-white church. That summer Daniels tutored children, helped those in need to find assistance, and promoted voter registration. In August Daniels joined other picketers in protesting businesses’ refusal to serve blacks in Fort Deposit, and they were arrested and jailed. After being released, Daniels and three others tried to enter a local shop but were confronted by Tom Coleman, a deputy sheriff, who aimed his shotgun at Ruby Sales, a young black woman. Daniels pushed her out of the way, took the blast of the gun himself and was killed. The Episcopal Church celebrates Jonathan Daniels’ life and work annually on August 14th and he is recognized in the Chapel of Modern Day Saints in Canterbury Cathedral.

The Assumption of Mary

Today Friday August 15, 2008 is the Assumption of Mary. For the Anglo Catholics in the audience this next song in dedicated to Our Lady, The Mother Of Our Savior.

Ave Maria

This song is from the PodShow Podsafe Music Network. Check it out at ‘music.podshow.com’ .


Bob Burger, Ave Maria

Should we cross the river Tiber?

Ever since Anglicanism has come into its own, there have been people who have decided to go back to Rome. This phenomenon in called “Crossing the Tiber”. A few weeks ago four priests from the Diocese of Ft. Worth visited Roman Catholic bishop Kevin Vann with these eight findings.


1. We believe the See of Peter is essential not optional – Fr. Stainbrook

2. We believe a magisterium is needed desperately – Fr. Crary

3. We believe the Catholic Faith is true – Fr. Stainbrook

4. We believe the Anglican Communion shares the fatal flaws of TEC- Fr. Tobola

5. We believe our polity is in error-Fr. Crary

6. We believe we are not the only ones in our diocese – Canon Hough

7. We believe Pope Benedict XVI understands our plight – Fr. Tobola

8. We believe there is a charism which Anglican ethos has to offer to the Universal Church-Fr. Stainbrook_


What does this mean?

Well, if you believe Bishop Iker, nothing really.


I am aware of a meeting that four priests of the Episcopal Diocese of Fort Worth have had with Bishop Kevin Vann of the Catholic Diocese of Fort Worth on June 16, 2008. After a year of studying various agreed statements that have come out of ecumenical dialogues between Anglicans and Roman Catholics on the national and international level, these clergy expressed an interest in having a dialogue on the local level and asked my permission to make an appointment to talk with Bishop Vann. The stated goal of these official Anglican/Roman Catholic dialogues (which have been going on for over 40 years) has been full, visible unity between the two communions.

The priests who participated in this meeting with Bishop Vann have my trust and pastoral support. However, in their written and verbal reports, they have spoken only on their own behalf and out of their own concerns and perspective. They have not claimed to act or speak, nor have they been authorized to do so, either on behalf of the Episcopal Diocese of Fort Worth or on my own behalf as their Bishop.

Their discussion with Bishop Vann has no bearing upon matters coming before our Diocesan Convention in November, where a second vote will be taken on constitutional changes concerning our relationship with the General Convention of the Episcopal Church. There is no proposal under consideration, either publicly or privately, for the Episcopal Diocese of Fort Worth to become part of the Roman Catholic Church. Our only plan of action remains as it has been for the past year, as affirmed by our Diocesan Convention in November 2007. The Episcopal Diocese of Fort Worth intends to realign with an orthodox Province as a constituent member of the worldwide Anglican Communion.

By God’s grace, we will continue to work and pray for the unity of the one holy catholic and apostolic church.

The Rt. Rev. Jack Leo Iker

Bishop of Fort Worth

August 12, 2008

But… Many in the blogisphere think that something’s afoot. My opinion, I think that this is one of many options that Ft. Worth is considering. Remember this is one of the dioceses that is considering leaving the Episcopal Church to align itself with the larger orthodox Anglican Communion.


My question to all of this is why?

If you are an Anglican, then hopefully you believe that our church is the fullest expression of the catholic church that we have. Notice that I say catholic, not Roman Catholic, and I think that is where these priests go wrong. They think that the answer to the liberal Episcopal problem is going back to Rome. I say that that just trades one set of problems for another. Let’s just take two points that they list and go through them:

1. We believe the See of Peter is essential not optional – Fr. Stainbrook

This argument goes back a long way and was wrong then and is wrong now. Remember, Peter was certainly the head of the church, but even he did not make decisions by himself (Acts 15), so to say that the Pope represents this kind of final authority is foreign to scripture. Listen to this passage from the 39 Articles:

Article XIX

Of the Church

The visible Church of Christ is a congregation of faithful men, in the which the pure Word of God is preached, and the Sacraments be duly ministered according to Christ’s ordinance in all those things that of necessity are requisite to the same.

As the Church of Jerusalem, Alexandria, and Antioch have erred: so also the Church of Rome hath erred, not only in their living and manner of Ceremonies, but also in matters of Faith.

Article XX

Of the Authority of the Church

The Church hath power to decree Rites or Ceremonies, and authority in Controversies of Faith: And yet it is not lawful for the Church to ordain anything contrary to God’s Word written, neither may it so expound one place of Scripture, that it be repugnant to another. Wherefore, although the Church be a witness and a keeper of holy Writ, yet, as it ought not to decree any thing against the same, so besides the same ought it not to enforce any thing to be believed for necessity of Salvation.


Everything flows from the Word of God. Does this mean that the Church has no authority? Absotlutly not, but its authority flows from the Word of God rightly translated. This is why statements such as what bishop Robinson, Bishop of New Hampshire are so out of line with orthodox Anglican teaching:

“The beauty of Anglicanism is that we are not a church that believes God stopped revealing himself at the end of the first century, when the canon of scripture was closed,” Robinson says. http://sxnews.e-p.net.au/feature/eye-of-the-storm-3696.html

The canon was closed around the third century actually, and who is to determine what God is actually revealing is we cannot trust the revelation that has been revealed to us?

2. We believe a magisterium is needed desperately – Fr. Crary

If by “magisterium” you mean a group of orthodox leaders that can guide us in the Word of God, then Gafcon and the Common Cause Partnership is well on its way to doing this!

Gafcon http://www.gafcon.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=72&Itemid=29

Common Cause Partners http://www.united-anglicans.org/

Now if you mean “magisterium” in the Catholic sense, then this is a non-starter.

In the Roman Catholic Church the word “Magisterium” refers to the teaching authority of the church. This authority is understood to be embodied in the episcopacy, which is the aggregation of the current bishops of the church, led by the Bishop of Rome (the Pope), who has authority over the bishops, individually and as a body, as well as over each and every Catholic directly. According to Catholic doctrine, the Magisterium is able to teach or interpret the truths of the Faith, and it does so either non-infallibly or infallibly (see chart below).

“The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the Magisterium of the Church, that is, to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him.”[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magisterium

Remember, we do not acknowledge Papel infallibility.


Olympic Coverage and Cultural Insensitivity

If you have been watching the Olympics as I have, then you must have seen the segments that NBC have aired about different aspects of Chinese cultures. Most of them have been what I like to call cultural buffoonery. In other words let’s talk about something we don’t understand and make fun of it. For example asking the head of China’s panda reserve if we help pandas mate by offering them Whitman Samplers?!!! Not funny.

Mary Carillo http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/modules/searchable/resourcedata/0814/_Mar/yPan/da_J/A185/video.html


Shayef Nafsak

by Rania Kurdy

By Omar Reyes 08/15/2008 03:52 PM

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